Rethinking Hiring in an Uncertain Market with ABL’s PJ Ferguson

In this Snippets episode, Leon speaks with PJ Ferguson, President and Founder of ABL Employment, about how hiring strategies are shifting in response to ongoing economic uncertainty.

Drawing on her experience in the staffing industry, PJ shares what she is seeing across sectors, from pent-up demand in distribution and customer service to ongoing pressure in entry-level talent pools. She reflects on how companies are balancing caution with growth, and how flexible staffing models are helping them stay responsive.

She also discusses common hiring pitfalls, including the tendency to narrow requirements based on past hires, and explains why focusing on attitude, drive, and complementary strengths leads to stronger teams.

Listen in for a conversation on adapting to a changing workforce, rethinking what defines the right fit, and building teams that support long term growth.

Transcript

Special thanks to Focus Wealth Management for helping us bring you today's PEO Leadership, Innovators Alliance snippets podcast.

Welcome to our snippets podcast. I'm Leon Goren, CEO of PEO Leadership and Innovators Alliance, North America's premier peer-to-peer network and leadership advisory firm.

Today I'm very excited to welcome PJ Ferguson, President and Founder of ABL Employment. PJ has been in the staffing industry since 1987, and her commitment to building meaningful relationships and delivering exceptional service has truly been the foundation of ABL's success. Her leadership and entrepreneurial drive have earned her significant recognition within the Canadian business community, including multiple appearances on Profit magazine's list of Canada's top women entrepreneurs, along with a nomination for the RBC Woman Entrepreneur of the Year award. We're especially proud to have her as an active member of our leadership community and participant in one of our advisory boards. PJ, it's great to have you with us.

Lovely to be here, Leon.

So I thought we'd take a moment and let's go back to 1987 and talk a little bit about what motivated you to start ABL and become an entrepreneur.

Well, actually, I come from a very entrepreneurial family, and I was, you know, raised in a household where there was a business phone in the house and very involved in, in, you know, the family business was quite large in the London area. And then when I graduated from university, I went sort of the corporate route, but my father was always sort of there going, "So when are you just going to start your own? That's kind of what we do, PJ."

Sure enough, then I guess it was, it was '99 when I decided to start ABL on my own. It was I was actually working for a firm in downtown Toronto, and my car was stolen from the gas station, and I felt like that was a sign, Leon, that it was just time I needed to start my own and, and get involved in the own area. It just worked well with my lifestyle and started in 1999 and never really looked back.

Oh, that's amazing. And what just curious, what, what business were your parents in or your father in originally?

You might know of it. It's Voyager Transportation, Voyago now. So quite a large organization that my parents started. My brothers were very involved in and grew rather extensively.

So my father was a bit of a serial entrepreneur. He'd had some small businesses before that. And so it was we were once at an event, my grandmother's, and we looked around the room and realized that everyone in the room was self-employed or an entrepreneur. Of all the cousins, all the aunts and uncles, everyone had their own business or something.

I would say farmers were the first entrepreneurs, you know? So that's, that kind of spirit of working hard, making your own fate, making that success, and that's just embedded in all of us, I think.

Well, I can tell you, there's probably not many people that have grown up with a business phone in their house back then. So you had no choice.

It's true. I had excellent phone manners from a very young age, I will say.

ABL, you know, the first thing that struck me is that you in many ways, you're on the front line. You're seeing what's happening at least with frontline workers, right, in terms of what you're doing. And you're also sitting in an advisory board. You sit in our leaders' community. You hear what these CEOs are talking about. Is there anything we're missing or choosing to ignore today, you know, when thinking about people, recruiting people, growth in our businesses?

One of the advantages or one of the reasons why I love this industry so much, Leon, is we really are leading indicators on what's happening in the economy. So every time there's sort of an up and down in the economy, and I've been through a fair number of them I'm always struck because we have such insight into Canadian businesses and the psyche of the Canadian entrepreneur. And, you know, we are very innovative in Canada and resilient. And the way we respond to ups and downs is, for me, I always find it so encouraging. And we're on the front lines of that. So we see when companies are, you know, see those drops in orders, and immediately they will reduce their workforce. Because we're in the flexible workforce business, we have a high volume of contingent employees there. And when you see the economy sort of take a little bit of a dive or what happened in the last year when really everybody just held their breath and held on to their, their money to sort of see what was going to happen.

And so it's encouraging for me right now to see that companies have sort of released their breath and are going forward, not exactly with confidence, but at least with perseverance. And we get to see that. So the one thing I would say is because that flexible side of the, the solution, companies are simply getting it done right now and realizing that that's what needs to happen, and the workforce is responding to that. It's also been a very changing workforce in the last year and a half, two years. So it's meant that companies have a few more challenges when it comes to being flexible and being able to grow and expand their base when they get large volume kinds of orders in. So I guess the one thing I would say for companies is, is give yourself that flexibility. Get moving if you can, if you see it. There's, there's a number of people in the workforce right now, good employees. They're looking for that full-time opportunity. And the numbers that are getting hired on are a little less than we've previously seen.

I always say, Leon, that if the if there's true confidence happening in the economy, then a large volume of our people are hired on, which is what we love to see happen. We aren't quite seeing that to the same extent yet, but people are getting extended. So I'm an innately positive person. I think I'm seeing good things coming, coming out for sure.

Are there any industries or markets, like is it the manufacturing sector that you've seen a resurgence in this first quarter? Is it across the board, or is it maybe the manufacturing side or services side? What's really showing some changes today?

I would say it is a little bit across the board. A lot of it has been a bit of pent-up demand for starters because people weren't increasing their inventories. We do a lot in the distribution sector. We also do a lot in the call center and contact center side on our customer service side. And that we're seeing, unfortunately, some demand increase in the, the credit and collections types of positions that are coming up which is something that happens after there's been a downturn in the economy.

So again, it's just responsiveness to what is happening in the market right now. That's across all sectors. We are in all provinces, pretty much except for Quebec to any great degree. And we are seeing, again, pockets of growth happening in various different places.

Can you tell me more a little bit more about that, the talent pool today? Is it better? Is it stronger?

It's, it's changed a fair bit Leon. I think we, again one part of our business is very much in the entry level, either general labor or customer service side of things. Then we have our mid-range and executive placement side. On that side, I would say the biggest part of what we're seeing a need for is, is good salespeople because people are companies are looking growth-oriented and they know they have to get out in the market.

The actual talent pool itself, again, changing the immigration has changed so dramatically over the last four years that it's meant the workforce itself has had to change. And in the entry-level pool particularly, there's far fewer people available than there was previously. And that's there's some tremendous pressure on that particular workforce because of, of the current immigration situation.

And, you know, we're going to definitely see that continue to impact. It's important because it's the business that we do every day. We are very dialed into it. And that's necessary to make sure you've got a consistent workforce right now, for sure.

I know with talent, I mean, one of the big challenges all these companies face upfront is hiring the right talent, whether it's entry-level or mid-management or even at senior level. How do you screen these individuals? Like, how do you pick the great people and make sure you got a great match?

And I know you talk a lot about matching, and it's very something you guys are very proud about, what you do. Are there any one or two secrets you can share or key processes people should be thinking about that?

One of the things I find can happen is we were just discussing this the other day. When you're looking for the right match for your organization, there's an unfortunate tendency to narrow your view around the most recent thing that happened. So for example, you're going to decide, I want someone who has to have this much experience and have not been ever worked for this company or has, you know, these five characteristics. And really what you're looking for, you're trying not to hire the last person who didn't work out in the job, or you're trying to hire the person who excelled in the job.

And when you look at what you're looking for overall, it's often more soft skill traits than just they have to have this much years experience. They have to have done this specific thing. It is an attitude, a drive level. And we've had a lot of success with the approach of we draw from a very large pool of people.

We have excellent search engine optimization and the ability to draw in a very large pool. We then have an automated initial screening so that you're getting the candidates in front of you that meet the requirements of the job. But then there's the flexibility for just finding the person who's the right fit in your organization.

You know it more than anyone, Leon. Sometimes the people that make your leadership team up, for example, it's complementary skills. It's not having everybody fit the exact same profile. That doesn't give you depth or perception. So I would say the one thing is just become more flexible. Look at all the things and be willing to flex on one or two of them in order to get the person that's going to add to your company, not just be a specific match for a small box.

Yeah. No, I agree with you. It's interesting, because we talk about AI, and AI is starting to make such a difference in all these different businesses. In your world, too, I'm imagining on the funnel it's happening. But really what you're describing is attitude, drive, passion. At the end of the day, which become judgment calls.

And the purpose of AI or any of the screening is to allow you to draw from a much larger market, get down to the few candidates. But then that's when the soft skill piece comes in. And that's person to person.

My last question to you. You're constantly sitting in a room with CEOs. You're listening to them talk. They're representing all these different industries. What do you think they're getting right, and what do you think they're getting wrong when you hear? Or what are they missing a little bit in terms of talent and building their organizations?

Oh, wow. I tell you, I sit in the rooms with the CEOs as part of Innovators Alliance and PEO Leadership. And mostly I'm just learning. I always say having the, you know, the ability to walk barefoot in those brains has helped my own company grow.

So there can still be that idea that you're trying to hire the, you know, when CEOs go out and they're involved in hiring and lower levels within the company, they often are trying to find that person that would become the next president. And the fact is companies, powerful companies, are made up of teams.

And teams have to work well together. They can't all be the same people. So encouraging that diversity of knowledge, of experience, of approaches to problems, and having them be united by a common approach to problem-solving, a common work ethic, but not a common work style, that's always my advice to companies.

You're not filling a position. You're building a team. And keep that in mind. Not everyone plays the same position and needs the same skills and attitude and outlook.

Thanks, PJ. That was that's awesome. That's great insight. Well, thank you for joining us and sharing some of your experience with us.

If you're interested in any of our live webcasts, The Way Forward Live or any other snippets, please take a moment and visit us at PEO-Leadership.com. You'll find on our site various previous recorded webcasts, including guests such as Morgan Housel, Janice Stein, Mitchell Goldhar, Jason Selk, and the list goes on.

Once again, thank you all for joining us today. And we look forward to seeing you again shortly.